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Monday, March 18, 2013

Trotting In Too Deep: Two Bronies Discuss Equestira Girls



Enjoy this cross over between R8 that is pretty much a casual discussion on Equestira Girls.




Moviefan12: Hey, I was wondering if you'd be interested in doing a cross over discussing our thoughts on Equestira Girls.




R8: As for Equestira Girls, I 100% support it and think it's a fantastic idea that I can't wait to see materialize. In fact I think it's going to be better than My Little Pony itself.




Moviefan12: Please tell me your being sarcastic. I hate the idea. Look at what they're doing to Spike.


















R8: Nope, 100% seriousness. I think it's a fantastic idea that has much more potential to expand the show's scope as well as take it into a direction that couldn't be explored in MLP.







Likewise with Spike I think it'll make the dynamic between the characters more interesting since it changes the role significantly, but still keep the love there. Besides, who knows. Perhaps Dog Spike will have more personality and emotion than regular Spike even without talking (after all, isn't Gromit one of the greatest silent film actors of all time?)







Moviefan12: Okay fair enough but I'd rather they made Spike, Twily's adopted little brother or something. This is perhaps going to be our most opposing cross over yet.




R8: But they already made Spike Twily's adopted brother. It's called MLP: FiM. What's the point of taking a risk with a new series and drastically changing the setting if you're just going to make it exactly the same? Since you're already taking a risk making it you should keep making risks and seeing just how much it works. Who knows, it could work even better.







Still, I think the best thing to do in this case is for you to lay out all your points for why you dislike the concept and for me to rebut them.







Moviefan12: Well okay, here's my take. Spike is the male lead of the show, right. I mean think about it, he is the male character we see the most. Yes, he is still a supporting character but in terms of male characters, he has the most screen time and while Spike may not be my favorite character, I feel like just making him a dog is not only slap in the face to Spike but also to the relationship between Spike and Twilight Sparkle. I mean, that'd be like if they made Luna, Celestia's pet cat.







R8: Ah but you could make the counter-argument that Wallace and Gromit would work better if Gromit was a human and on equal footing with Wallace. See it's not necessarily bad that their relationship has changed, it's just that it does open up new possibilities  Granted this all comes down to how dog-like they make Spike and what his ultimate purpose will be (plucky comic relief, minor background side-character, or legitimate loyal companion to Twilight that helps her in her hour of need), but it's still there.







The relationship of Spike and Twilight is based on loyalty, trust and friendship, which is pretty much what the symbol of the dog, well, symbolizes. In fact it would make less sense to make Spike a little brother because, besides from the awkward questions of 'where does he come from' and 'who's his parents and what happened to them', it wouldn't be as believable that they're as lovey dovely as they are in the show. We can believe that a pony and a dragon would never fight and argue because we just accept the rules of that world. But to make Spike a human means he'd have to act more human, and thus for the two of them to be best siblings ever would be too unbelievable and thus too unrelatable.







In short making Spike a human instead of a dog either brings in conflict that wouldn't necessary work given the focus of the show, or suffer from having a lack of conflict that make the characters belivable.







Moviefan12: Okay, what about Scootaloo and could Faust's idea be worked into this show?







R8: Equestira Girls allows the possibility of Scootaloo being in leg braces or a wheelchair. Aka having the ability to one day walk and not being able to now.


















We can't relate as much to a pegasus not flying cos we can't fly and ergo we just go 'yeah, same here'. But if we see Scootaloo in a wheelchair we can better sympathize with her plight since we all know what it feels like to walk.







Thus Equestira Girls, with its older audience in mind, can be set up to tackle more adult topics that MLP can't for marketing and brand reasons.







R8: Can you deny that, given the excellent writing staff that writes MLP, that they wouldn't be able to bring a mature and realistic look at it that can relate to a younger audience about life in a wheelchair and how that there is still hope regardless of how hopeless it is? That you can give them a situation that they can relate to?







Moviefan12: I more then trust the writers and if they could do that, I could look past everything else. Just so that they could show young children, just because you may have limitations and obstacles. It's okay. You may have to work harder to get to where you want to go in life but its okay. You may be different but you should never let your disability define you. Even though, it is something that you have to live with, it is not who you are.





R8: Exactly. And that's not what Scootaloo represents as of Season 3. It's never called into doubt that she is physically unable to fly due to disability, but merely of age. As such bringing it in now would be too massive of a tone shift. It'd suddenly be 'wait so she's never been able to fly all this time'. Too dark for what is, and lets be honest, a kids show.







But having her be visibly disabled from day one will cause an outcry, but it will allow them to move more confidently with the story and show the true life of a disabled person. It wouldn't be a jarring shift because it'd already have happened, so to speak.







So, point in my favor about why Equestira Girls is a good idea (the point being a shake up of the status quo, the finer point being Scootaloo).







Moviefan12: Okay, so we've talked about they could do with one of the CMC? But what about Applebloom and Sweetie Belle? Because unlike Scootaloo, where the show could easily rework Laruen Faust's idea of Scoots not flying into her having a leg brace or being in a wheelchair. I don't see anything new that could be done with the other founding members of the Cutie Mark Crusaders.




R8: I think Sweetie Belle's arc would be having to live in the shadow of her much more popular and more talented sister. Having to deal with that level of ignoredness brought on from having a more popular older sibling at the same school.



Likewise Applebloom's would be about her confrontation of whether she wants to be an apple farmer or do something different. Do her wants and needs come before or after the family? Can she have a life outside the Orchard.







Together the three of them are the characters who live in the shadow of their elder peers since they don't know what they want to do with their life and struggle to find their place within it. Scootaloo struggles to find her place at being an athlete whilst being disabled and whether she can rise about the challenge. Sweetie Belle struggles from constantly being compared to her older sister and wanting to find her own voice so to speak. Applebloom struggles between respecting her families wishes and doing something else she's passionate with.







See that right there could work since it allows you to 'break canon' so to speak whilst still making the characters recognizable to the ordinary viewer.







Moviefan12: Okay, I will freely admit that those are decent points and I think they could work well. I think it's time we move onto the elephant in the room if you will. The looks of the humanized Mane Six.













This is perhaps the biggest issue, I imagine a lot of people (myself included) have. The humanized versions of the Mane Six. It's not that they don't look human because Rarity, Fluttershy, (still the cutest) Pinkie Pie, and Applejack do look humanish. Dash and Twilight really don't. This also brings me to my next point, if these are supposed to be humanized versions of the Mane Six, then why does the Allicorn Princess Twilight and the two Pegasi still have their wings? That doesn't add up. And also, if they got to keep their wings, in this human form, then how come Rarity and Twily didn't get to keep their horns? Doesn't seem fair, if you ask me. Or would that have been too absurd? Though this does make me wonder what the humanized versions of Luna, Celestia, and Cadance will look like and if we will see a humanized Discord. Looking at these designs, I at first wanted to call them creepy but that's not right. I think the best way to put it is I just find them shocking and I just really can't get behind the humanized Mane Six here. I've see a lot of fanart of the ponies as humans and to be honest, it looked a hundred times better then this.






R8: Well it's very much the uncanny valley. Not quite human enough for them to be relatable, not quite inhuman enough for them to be foreign  However whilst a picture does say a 1000 words, can you really judge by one photo that it isn't going to work.







I suspect the horns were removed since they would seem unsightly  and they'll no doubt have another clever little way of distinguishing magic users. Whilst wings work in regards to an angel, having horns come out of your head just make you seem like a devil.







I'm surprised you didn't mention the cutie mark on the cheek, since that's the bit that really doesn't seem to fit in with all the rest. It's too distracting. That and how their hair is a bit too long.







Like I said, it's the uncanny valley principle. That and they want to retain as many attributes from the ponies as possible whilst making them more humanoid. It doesn't work perfectly though, and there's still some flaws in the overall design, but it may work better when we see it animated. Once we see the models moving about we may see why they chose that way. To choose just one picture and have that be totally representive of the characters is a bit unfair (likewise if you used a picture of Twilight from Lesson Zero and used that to say that's everything about the character, you'd be doing a disservice).







Moviefan12: The hair really doesn't bug me as to be honest, I kinda like it. That is a good point about the magic users. To be honest, I didn't even notice the cutie mark placing until you pointed it out and now I'm thinking of Mike Tyson. You say, that it may work better when animated, I'm still not convinced. The humanized ponies aren't as bad as some Bronies and Pegasisters would lead one to believe. Though, I think you hit it on the head with Uncanny Valley. I have nothing left to say. So to wrap this up, I'd say that while I'm still not a fan of this idea, I don't hate as much as I did at the start of this cross over. I'll give it a chance and if I like it, great but if it's sucks, I still have MLP. No matter how bad this show may be, it will not cause me to no longer be a Brony.







R8: Lets look at this way: Is it really a good idea to quickly condemn a show that has an unusual asethic choice and is taking risks that no other show would take? Is trying something new and breaking down class barriers in television that no show has challenged before? Is willing to stand up and go 'no, this can be quality entertainment, even if your previous misconceptions say otherwise'.







But enough about My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. I'm pretty sure we're talking about Equestira Girls:




Moviefan12: Indeed, we were and your joke brings up a point. I never thought I'd count MLP as one of my favorite shows but it is. It just goes to show that even though, we may not like something. Such as I'm still not sold on this idea, we should give it a chance.







R8: Check and mate then. I have successfully made you go from 'I hate the idea and think it's awful' to 'whilst I'm not sold on the idea entirely, I'm still going to give it a fair chance'. You gotta admit, this was a pretty damn interesting conversation we had in the long run







Moviefan12: You most certainly have and I hope the rest of the Brony community can be as open to this idea. Thanks for taking the time to discuss it with me.

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